Saturday, October 17, 2009

Norwegian Open changes format - Day 2 results

The ambitious proposed 6 game round robin plus playoffs format for the 2009 Norwegian Open was changed to a two games per day round robin, with final standings decided on points. Though the event is being held at the club managed by Dordi Nordby, it is still being organized by the Halden CC.

After two days play, Great Britain are undefeated at 3-0, and Canada are equal on points but with a record of 3-1 after losing 6-7 to USA.

Results can be viewed here, and hopefully line-scores will be added here.

No word on Team Canada line-ups.


Matt D. said...

Does the fact that Jim Armstrong is NOT REALLY DISABLED not bother people here.

YOu have a guy with a bad back and bad knees not a guy who is really disabled. You ask anyone else in the world or a different set of classifiers from any one of 50 other paralympic sports and JIM would NOT be permitted to play.

This is a guy who has taken away a spot from a person who is truely disabled from being able to participate at the only paarlympic level sport they can.

You don't see any wheelchair curling even being permitted to play at the Brier why should we allow an able bodied person to play our sport!

Come people wake up and see what is happening here. In a few years will Randy, Russ and the boys become wheelchair players. At least make it fair in both directions here!!!

CCA and WCF have made rules NOT to allow wheelchair curlers play in able-bodied why don't we do the same. ASk Chris SOB. may he would agree with this now he is on the outside looking in!

. said...

Matt D. confuses "disabled" with "wheelchair user" and this is a topic that ha been beaten to death over many posts. The WCF wheelchair curling classifier has declared Jim eligible to play, and it doesn't really matter what would have happened in other sports and with other classifiers. Perhaps it's time to put aside grievances and for Canadians to support the team as chosen.

And please let's not allow Matt D's post to begin another round of "yes he did, no he didn't" rants about Jim's presence on the team.

Matt D. said...

If he actualy used a wheelchair MAYBE but he walks in everywhere and No the token pertend to use a wheelchair when it suits him does not count.

He fakes his wheelchair use when needed and then walks everyother time.

Come on people...want video!!!

Bruce Cameron said...

I would like to congratulate Matt D for putting his name to his comments. Welcome to the wheelchair curling blog. There are only a few of us who do that and the rest hide behind anonyomous which makes their comments absolutely meaningless. I understand what u are saying and this topic has been around the loop more than once in the past couple of years. The eligibility for wheelchair curling has gone from requiring a wheelchair for daily mobility to being eligible to wheelchair curl if you can not safely deliver a curling rock by the normal delivery or with a stick. Those words are not verbatim of the rules past and present but certainly convey the jist. How did we get to the current eligibility? Gerry Pecham of the CCA brought us to the present by convincing The WCF to allow his long time curling buddy Jim Armstrong to be a wheelchair curler. I know the anonymous vultures are circling overhead just waiting for me to say something negative about Jim Armstrong but I won't because he is a fine person and a fine curler both past and present. Matt D I am guessing you frequent the curling club where some Team Canada members play and practice.....I want to warn u that the anonymous vultures also frequent that club so watch your back.....

Anonymous said...

" NOT REALLY DISABLED ' very strong words Matt D.
Welcome to wheelchair sport Sir where there are such large differences in ones ability to perform in a sport. The more disabled individual may feel they cannot compete against a more able person. The w/c sports that have been around for many many years have taken this into consideration with a value system on each player and only so many points being allowed on each team. I would hope this does not happen to curling until we have many many more teams playing.I have only curled for a few years but have been involved with w/c sport for over 30 , I have observed some very high level quads shoot a high percentage game and outplay walkies,they have obviously worked very hard at their game. No they could not throw hard takeout weight but have placed themselves on the team so that is not a factor.I think you [Mat] should be more worried about temporally disabled player getting into the competitive curling ranks. That is what ruined w/c racquetball. Jim qualifies as a disabled athlete get over it,you disagree , get over it and go play the game the best you can enjoy playing cause thats the way Disable sports have been and will likely be for as long as everyone has different abilities. Walking with wrecked knees in my opinion would be harder than wheeling a manual w/c if one uses the chair enough the chair is way faster than walking.

Matt D. said...

Interesting comments....

Wrong but interesting. Jim Armstrong, was not classified them a few phone calls later and MAGIC, classified. Uhmmm how did that happen, well let me see can you say Gerry and Les. Jim was not allowed to be classified until Les Harrison took over then MAGIC, Gerry gets on the phone and the WCF and the MAGIC 1 classified says YES. WOW, how blind are you...The WCF has long for gone the ruls of the IPC as it relates to classification. The IPC and the International Classification rules to which the WCF has signed and are required to follow break them by letting Jim play.

The only reason why no one from any country out side Canada has not called Canada on it is because there is NO PROTEST policy in place and one else to classify Jim. Have Knowledge and call the WCF and IPC on it and well see what happens. Under the rules 3 classifiers frm 3 different countryies NOT including the counrty the athlete in question comes from MUST both Approve the clssification and then if questioned 3 different classifiers take a llok at the person. NOT 1 GUY from 1 COUNTRY setting the rules about who can or can not play.

Come on People take time to read and have the guts to call the WCF and IPC to the table to follow the rules they have set and agreed to.

Jim is NOT disabled and DOES not require a wheelchair for everyday use. Me get over it, why done you see the light and let someone with a real disablity including some of those Quads you talk about back in the game.

Canada only has Jim playing to save their ass against getting beat. With out Jim that Team could not ever win since DAw leaft. AND I am not a DAW but llok back and see the results for your self.

Bruce Cameron said...

Well said Matt D. You have done ur homework and are knowledgeable abt the classification system. Those that hide behind anonymous just spontaniously express their thoughts and ideas without doing any research whatsoever.....I tip my hat to u Matt D for trying to enlighten these people however it is somewhat like beating ur head against the feels good to stop....keep up the good work..

Matt D. said...

Thanks for the support Bruce.

And just for those which may think I am full of it check out these links and read for yourselves...

WCF and CCA are breaking the rules...Armstrong should not be playing!!!

Anonymous said...

Oh, Matt D:

Have a look around the WC Curling World........

Les Harrison was interviewed by Al Cameron two years ago, and Harrison said that the WCF's position was that amputees were not eligible, yet MANY amputees are representing their countries.

There is NO advantage to ANY able-bodied player once his butt hits the chair to play.

The advantage Team Canada has is that Jim is so knowledgeable.

Rest assured, that in the world of WCF versus Canada, the WCF will not give an inch to anything Canada wants (like Armstrong playing).

There is only one assessor for the WCF, so he, and he alone, has approved or tossed out every, yes EVERY player. Armstrong went to Scotland, was evaluated, and deemed eligible.

Surely this story can end. Only one assesor who has seen everyone deems Jim eligible, based on medical evidence and interview AND examination.

Why so bitter, Matt?????

Anonymous said...

For the record, Armstrong was approved by a fully qualified IPC Assesor (Dr. Newell) prior to being approved by the WCF.

Matt D. said...

Oh, so uninformed. Read the documents to which the WCF are bond by.

1 classfier is NOT permemnted to classify.

And to expad on the Dr. Newell issue, well Yes she did classify him but not for wheelchair curling. Wheelchair Basketball where the rules are for domestic ONLY. Even W/C Basketball does not allow 4.5 AB players to play international. READ PEOPLE READ!

Dr. Newell board lined classified him, just like Misty T. from Basketball. The rules are clear for classification and even she had to be seen by 3 to 9 classifiers before she could play NOT 1 guy calling the shots. Come on......

JIM ARMSTRONG by rules of IPC should not be playing!!!!!!

I will be happy to send the links along and help you out!

Anonymous said...

Okay, let.s is Jim play get the annual "why is Jim playing" thread out of the way.

Firstly, the CCA contacted the WCF on the POSSIBILITY of Jim being eligible, and without seeing him, denied his eligibility.

The following year, they decided to send Jim, Bruno, and Chris to Scotland for assessment by Dr. Burt.

All three were approved for play, wih Chris fully mobile on braces.

Les Harrison is NO friend of Gerry Peckham. The CCA and WCF have a moderaely tolerable working relationship, with numerous issues unsolved.

Watch a group of international wheelchair curlers get on a many will climb the stairs as use the wheelchair lift.

If the WCF even attempted to get ruthless with the interpretation of THEIR OWN RULE, there would not be a world championship, or Paralympic involvement, since we would not have enough eligible countries.

This sport should be INCLUSIVE, NOT EXCLUSIVE.

Jim is eligible,PERIOD, after two IPC assessments (whic would make him eligible for ALL IPC sports), as well as the WCF assessor.


Anonymous said...

Sorry, he last post was mine, but I would like to make one further point.

you have followed this eligibility issue right from the start, and are more knowledgeable and in tune with the sport, having had dicussions with Kate Caitness, among other, Gerry Peckham, Wendy Morgan, and of course, Jim, himself.

Can yo please prrovide, hopefully for he final time, the entire overview of Jim;s qualification.

I believe that not only is he eligible, but he is a tremendous and intelligent person, who is very in tune with advancing our sport, and is using his influence to do just that, when he certainly does not have to.

Virtually all outside media coverage turn on his involvement.

Anonymous said...

Yhis eligibility issue certainly won't die.

Matt D., are you one of the cuts from the CCA POOL OF PLAYERS?

Or are you a wannabe that feels he hasn't had a fair shot?

If people with braces and prostheses are eigible, why not Jim with his two surgically placed prostheses,as well as other mobility issues?

I have to believe that the WCF were very horough with his assessment because of all the publicity surrounding it. By the way, the vat majority of media attention we have garnered for our sport is a direct result of Jim;s involvement. This attention has certainly helped expose our sport.

Be thankful for all Jim has done for our sport....look at the big picture.

Anonymous said...

Matt D, or whoever you are.

Perhaps you can tell us what else the CCA has to do to confirm Jim' eligibility?

Is there anything else in the WCF's arsenal which will negate Jim's eligibility?

Is Dr. Newell, a well respected IPC classifier, who approved Jim twice (for Wheelchair Curling), not above board?

Can you blame the CCA for exploring Jim's eligibility?

Have you talked to Jim's teammates to hear what they have to say?

Have you talked to Jim?

Do all your homework, Matt D and Bruce.

Or are you two simply whining?

Nobody else seems to share your opinions.

Matt D, said...

I have looked at the big picture, I have researched and researched , MAYBE you should .

IPC has not classified him as Jim has not been to a Paralympics which is the only time an IPC classification can occur, so in that you are wrong.

Ipc states clear that a minimum of 3 classifier MUST assess the eligable athlete So that is wrong.

And please don't confuse someone like Chris Sob. which Jim A. as this like Apples to Oranges.

The WCF in a video article last year had problem with double leg amps playing and said they could not PLay so why the change all of a sudden to allow Jim to play .

You people need to back up your comments and come out into the open and stop hiding behind a curtain of Anonyomus!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

So who is a Matt D??????
You ar anonymous to me

Anonymous said...

Good point...Idon't know what a Matt D is either.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous to me too